Anyone who believes a plumber pays more in taxes than a billionaire is probably also dumb enough to vote for Barack Obama.
It's going to get worse before it gets better...
Even Obama's people are saying unemployment will not go down before the 2012 election, and I believe them. Removing $1.5 trillion from the economy is not the way to grow jobs. That's according to Reaganomics as well as John Maynard Keynes. The president is economically illiterate and his policies are an incoherent clash of careening desperation and overheated class warfare populism, all fueled by crony crapitalism.
Obama Will Run in 2012
Don't believe the speculation that Obama may go quietly into that good night and make way for another Dem candidate. He's young and America is not yet completely broken.
Regardless, he ain't giving up his current gig without a global-billionaire-funded fight (where others do the dirty work.)
But anyway... Greece will default, and who's in and who's out of the Eurozone won't really matter; Germany will end up on top... It's gonna be ugly.
We here in the US will continue sliding sideways, but I think we'll come out OK, even after the ten years or so of misery and chaos we are facing. For the most part, we still know how to take care of ourselves, our kinfolk and our neighbors; Those who do not should probably partner up with that Spanish-speaking family down the street. Where they came from, you had to have some basic survival skills or you'd end up dead.
Our fundamentals are better than Europe's, and I really do remain optimistic that no matter how bad it gets, riots and all the rest, we will make it through, if only because North America (thanks in no small part to Canada) will remain fertile ground for capital, especially when compared to the rest of the world.
China?
Their environment is a nightmarish catastrophe bubbling just below the surface. Hundreds of millions are still mired in poverty. Smaller countries chafe at their role as The Middle Kingdom's slave state, while other nations find ways to undercut them with cheaper labor, just as China did to the developed world. China will get old before it gets rich.
The Collapse Won't be Pretty
The Chinese Communist Politburo still nurtures the illusion that they can ride the beast, doling out freedom with an eyedropper. Good luck with that. Gorbachev thought he could just crack the door open, and next thing he knew, freedom's hordes were storming the breach. His Eastern European clients were hanging from lamp posts while Boris Yeltsen was blasting the walls of Parliament with hijacked tanks. It's folly. Once human beings get a whiff of liberty, it's all over.
China's Totalitarian-Capitalism chemistry set will blow up. And it won't be a little ka-boom, it will be a roaring fireball seen and heard around the world.
Forget investing in the stock market. Put your faith in God and your money in gold and lead.
43 comments:
He's never been in a fight in his entire life, other than the time he and his gay Muslim "porn 'stash" roommate both discovered a roach under the sofa cushion, and the room broke out into a cocaine-frenzied pillow fight.
==========
I love it when second amendment pussy boys get butch.
I love it when Obama fanboys get catty when their messiah is criticized.
Greece will default, and who's in and who's out of the Eurozone won't really matter...
You REALLY don't think that the Fed won't prop up the Euro/ Eurozone (as they already did w/TARP)?
Please pass those drugs you're taking over to me.
If the Euro and Europe is threatened, the US taxpayer will be on the hook AGAIN for the whole collapse, just as we were post WWII.
Speedy: Your cynicism is well-founded, and you are probably right.
Unfortunately, I believe that our intervention would not prevent a collapse, but rather bring the roof down upon our heads as well.
At this point, I don't see a good outcome, regardless of what happens.
We here in the US will continue sliding sideways, but I think we'll come out OK, even after the ten years or so of misery and chaos we are facing.
Perhaps as a whole. On an individual level, I'm not very optimistic.
Speedy, you'll have to fight Obama for those drugs!
SF...You've cheered me up about China :)
as for the rest of it; very well said, and thanks for the optimism about US. I wish I felt that way and your thoughts help.
(now go get some mac 'n cheese:)
Throwing the U.S. stock market under the bus is not the way to go. Commodities can be manipulated much more than equity markets (although both are admittedly subject to skullduggery on occasion). See the movie 'Trading Places' with Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackroyd to see what I mean (Ralph Belamy and Don Ameche as the Duke Bros)
Your general optimism in the U.S. and our resilience to the ravages of global chaos should also extend to the equity markets.
Where else in the world are you going to park your money? The Euro? The Yuan? The Yen?
Ha.
You nailed it, Silver! I would make just one minor addition.
"Once human beings get a whiff of liberty, it's all over."
Except when liberty is taken for granted.
This is one of your best. You had your A game on today. Thanks. I needed it.
China is paying a heavy price for their infanticide policies. I hold no sympathy for them. They are reaping what they sow.
I appreciate the fact that you are still quite optimistic about the United States, I wish I held as much.
I agree about trusting in God and investing gold. The thing is, not many of us can afford to do that.
I know a few plumbers, Silver, and yes they pay higher rates than most billionaires. That's because we taxed earned income at a higher rate than capital gains.
And no one is talking about "Removing $1.5 trillion from the economy." You have to be economically illiterate to believe that is what Obama is suggesting. Raising taxes does not de facto equate "removing" money from the economy.
Investing in the gold bubble at this point is retarded, and horrible advice. China is not going to explode. Canada is a very small player in the world. The US is in serious trouble, but it's not the end for us either.
There's one good thing that could come of the impending disaster of returning the crooked, inept GOP, the people that caused the recession, mass unemployment, and the real estate collapse in the first place, back to power: They will sink the country so low that the American people will have no choice but to react by moving the country thoroughly and dramatically to the Left. That means finally making the idle, useless rich pay their fair share, ending "free" trade, and rebuilding the country that the irresponisble, anti-American, short-sighted, crooked, selfish GOP ignored for a generation and a half.
JMJ
"That's because we taxed earned income at a higher rate than capital gains."
Yes! Those who do not make the honest distinction you just made are dishonest demagogic liars.
And no one is talking about "Removing $1.5 trillion from the economy."
Wrong! That is exactly what a tax is: Removing money from an economy. If not, then why not set the tax at 100% and have government experts dole it back out as they see fit?
With the demise of the Chinese woman , looks like China is going to need some of those gay Muslim porn stash types.
Silver, I'm pretty sure everyone on my side of the field have been pretty clear about how we tax earned income at a greater rate than unearned income.
Taxes do not "remove" money from the economy. Government spending is part of the economy. Free trade, illegal immigration, servicing foreign debt - these remove money from the economy. Taxes only do when they go to servicing foreign debt, which wouldn't be the case if we simply raised taxes to pay for things we need instead of relentlessly borrowing.
JMJ
So a husband and wife "millionaire" couple who own a small business and plan to hire another person will still be able to hire that person even if Uncle Sam demand another 30K from them?
Make no sense, Jersey. You're not just going against what I say, you are going against Keynes, who says don't raise taxes in an economic downturn.
Who will you appeal to now? Karl Marx?
Liberalism: Incoherent and Unsafe at any speed.
My god, your posts get stupider and stupider.
Stupider.....
How's that fourth grade English coming along?
I love it when second amendment pussy boys get butch.
This, from someone who brags about his .50 Caliber phallic substitute.
The Lyin' King...GMTA
http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/2011/03/lyin-king.html
Proof: I like yours better!
btw, what is "GMTA?" That's not gang code for "you're coming after me for stealing your idea" is it?
@ USMC:
You forgot to add "...that he keeps "lockered" three states away where it does him absolutely no good."
Yes! Those who do not make the honest distinction you just made are dishonest demagogic liars.
--------------
Oh come on Silver, it's pretty common knowledge (among liberals) that the mega rich pay the lower capital gain/dividend rate.
We aren't the ones who picked up the "40% pay no taxes" meme from Talent on Loan from Synthetic Morphine all the time knowing they are lying through their teeth.
Or maybe the right doesn't know income tax is only one mode of taxation.
And please do not call me an Obama fanboy. I truly dislike the right of center DLC stooge. The only thing worse are the right wing fanatics who call this guy a socialist(LMAO).
Hey toy soldier boy, I only mention the firearm when the fringe right wing nutlogs start trotting out their bullshit idea that the left has a monolithic attitude toward firearm control.
Silver,
Let's get grown-up, real-life, and serious.
Take "small business."
http://www.census.gov/econ/smallbus.html
Look at this and inform yourself.
Your example of the couple with a fully taxably million-dollar income from a "small business" is a myth.
After looking at the stats, you can easily see that raising the top marginal rate doesn't really effect the small business sector at all.
Most of the small business sector is off the radar anyway:
"About three quarters of all U.S. business firms have no payroll. Most are self-employed persons operating unincorporated businesses, and may or may not be the owner's principal source of income."
Three quarters. So, most of these "small businesses" are just unincorporated business ventures/tax loopholes/tax dodges/professional necessities/cash based/part time/small revenues/etc, etc, etc... SMALL BUSINESSES.
Surely you've lived in America long enough to know what your average small business is. It is not millionaire couples. The vast, VAST, majority of small businesses are working and middle class enterprises. Individual owner profits are nowhere near the millions. And even when they are, there are plenty of ways the tax codes give them a break. I know. I've done quite a bit of small business taxes.
So get real.
And marine guy and bd, you really didn't get the "stupid-er" joke? What? You guys never heard of friggin' alliteration??? Jesus Christ guys! Who am I arguing with??? Fifth grade dictionary nerds??? Sheesh. Can't even have a little fun with you two.
And remember, guys: Never think you're all that smart - let alone smarter than anyone else. Because if you get it wrong, it very well may come back to bite you. ;) If you guys argued like that with me in person, I'd rhetorically eat you alive.
JMJ
Sure Jersey, let's tax our way to prosperity...
Those people are just greedy and working for the loopholes and tax dodges, so let's take more of their money!
Dictators love people like you.
Again, I remind you this goes against the Keynesian Dogma you guys love to trot out so often.
No, Silver. I'm not talking about "tax(ing) our way to prosperity." All I'm saying is that we need to pay more of our bills now, and we can. No decent person likes raising taxes. But sometimes you have to do it.
And no. Dictators hate people like me. Because I'm not a recalcitrant any more than a sycophant. I think for myself - beyond ideology or idols.
JMJ
"Great Minds Think Alike"
Hows this, Silverfiddle.
During the sainted Raygun years we were borrowing at massive interest rates - over 10%.
Now the 30 year bond is yielding well under the nominal inflation rate.
So since the cost of debt service is what matters not the gross debt amount, who cost the most, Saint Ronnie Raygun or Obama.
Maybe the marine will try the math.
Ducky makes a great point here.
This 35-year-old phony inflation war is really about keeping interest rates unrealistically low, and the funny thing about interest rates (like everything else in life) is they can and sometimes should go up. Just like taxes.
JMJ
Silverfiddle said: what a tax is: Removing money from an economy.
I say: So true. If not for taxes (especially real-estate taxes), I'd have a huge chuck of disposable income.
Jersey does taxes for small businesses? Really? That's scary.
Let's look at how any business is taxed, whether it is a giant corporation or a sole proprietor.
* Revenues less cost = Gross profit
*Gross profits less allowed depreciation or depletion = Adjusted Gross Profit.
* Adjusted Gross Profits less Taxes = After Tax Profits.
Now, in the case of a sole proprietor, he/she will look at their After Tax Profit and they may decide they need to put a certain amount aside for some needed capital improvements in their business. What is left of the After Tax Profits is what the proprietor and his/her family live on.
Corporations have many proprietors. They are called shareholders. When the representatives of all these proprietors, the elected board of Directors, looks at the proprietors After Tax Profit, they decided how much of the After Tax Profits the business needs to retain for later investment and the remainder of the After Tax Profit is distributed to all of the corporation's proprietors by what are call dividends. The difference with these proprietors is that the IRS says they want to tax these After Tax Profits again. The IRS calls it capital gains tax.
So, why are the multitude of proprietors of corporations treated differently from sole proprietors? The truth is that Warren Buffet shouldn't have to pay any taxes on his After Tax Profit.
I love it when Ducky reaches for some obscure twist on things when he's at a loss. Yes Ducky, Ronald Reagan did start out having to pay those high Jimmy Carter interest rates, but he brought them down. (yes, I know, it was Paul Volker, God bless him. Please spare us the lectures.)
Jersey McJones said...
Let's get grown-up, real-life, and serious
.
Let's face it, If we were "grownup and serious and smart" then we would never had elected 'your' kind of man as the president of the United States of America,
Silverfiddle, I don't think the cost of debt service is at all obscure.
Now, the question of whether the Fed action is inflationary or deflationary is a lot more important here.
I think it's also important to admit that Obama's fiscal policy has not generated as much of a deficit as the neocon titans who came before.
Now you're really out there, Ducky. By whatever standard, Obama's deficits are unprecedented in the history of the nation.
About the only good thing I can say about him is that he didn't start it.
Sorry Silverfiddle but TARP, the tax cuts and carrying the wars off budget were major components of the deficit along with the recession and non of it has its origins with Obama.
The exercise is to dump on Obama (not that its not called for) and ignore the Republican faults.
Clintoon was a big player also. Not a progressive in sight so I don't see why the left is your target.
The way I see it, it will make no difference if our economy picks up or not. It will make no difference if everybody has a job. None of that will matter one twit if we lose our Constitution, our rights and freedoms, and as long as we keep electing the folks that the two major parties and the MSM back, candidates who don't have even a second grader's level of understanding of the Constitution, candidates who will just keep on enacting laws, rules and regulations even if they are unconstitutional, candidates who insist on overlooking even the most massive violations of the Constitution, then nothing really matters.
Where did you do your Constitutional law training?
Face it, you're just anther schmuck with an opinion like the rest of us
Oh Pshaw! A week away -- having an uproariously good time at a posh resort in the Blue Ridge celebrating the Collective Seventieth Birthday of My High School Class while Wall Street imploded --, and I come back to find the same old dismal, entrenched robotic responses to a stimulating post.
Discouraging!
Almost as discouraging as the depressing performance put on by The Republican Gnomes at their deplorably dopey debates. PHEW!
Everyone trying to get the nomination looks bad, and smells worse.
However, even though Ron Paul may look, sound and gesture like an old maid in pants, he's still the only one in that sorry crowd who's telling the truth. [Why else do you think he's ignored by the "major" media and openly derided by FOX and the right wing radio pundits, who obviously get their marching orders from AIPAC?]
As for all the tommyrot about "fairness" in taxation, blah blah, blah, no one seems to realize that:
1. We don't really need the pretentious, farcical, welfare-statist garbage the government "gives" us in return for those taxes we pay. We need to implement a radical slash-and-burn policy there and STOP the @#$*?*&@!&*!%@#!"!~ MERRY-GO-ROUND.
2. We should never have gone so deeply into debt to finance the farce to begin with. We must pay it off, of course, but QUIT adding more. Just QUIT.
3. Instead of raving on about "the rich" paying less in capital gains taxes than "the poor" pay in ordinary income taxes, we ought to be out marching the mall with pitchforks, shovels, torches and musketry demanding that income taxes be lowered to the same level as capital gains taxes. Better yet, ALL taxes should be lowered to no more than 10%, and the ever-lovin' government should be FORCED to live within those means.
4. Also, we ought to DEMAND that capital gains be indexed for inflation before they are taxed.
5. Losses on the sale of one's primary residence should be written off as they would be on any other investment.
6. At the local level property taxes should be frozen and never raised for homeowners who've reached retirement age.
7. Social Security, which truly is a Ponzi Scheme, should be slowly, gradually and ever-so-gently phased out of existence -- along with most of the other toxic, Marxian frou-frou designed for the sole purpose of expanding and aggrandizing Centralized Power.
8. Savings and investment should be encouraged by declaring every single cent saved and invested to be tax-free.
9. Government is a huge, fraudulent, self-serving, out-of-control, a drag on the economy, and should somehow, be paired down to no-more-than one third its present size.
10. Except for those rare persons who are physically and mentally incapable of functioning at all, no one should receive an income from government, unless they work for it at whatever job the government provides at minimum wage no matter how menial, tedious, or unappealing the work may be.
Implementing those suggestions would give us a healthy start on a road back to sanity and prosperity.
~ FreeThinke
PS: I hope and pray SiverFiddle is right about China, though I hate for the innocent population of any society controlled by rotten leadershit to suffer any more than absolutely necessary. - FT
Welcome back, FreeThinke!
Ducky: Are you saying only constitutional scholars may comment on government?
I do agree with you that this did not start with Obama. The seeds of our financial destruction were sown long ago. But Obama has earned plenty of blame and racked up a historic amount of debt. He's the president now, so yeah, we're going to dump all over this economically ignorant, debt-riddled demagogue.
I'm saying that when lay people start talking about the Constitution without some scholarly grounding it sounds like a bunch of farts.
Things don't just mean what you want them to mean, outside of Wonderland and I think right wingers may spend a good deal of time there.
When blog posts start sounding like farts, you may want to get your hearing checked...
"It's going to get worse before it gets better..."
That pretty much sums it up. It seems that's the only way we'll move forward, through failure, pain and frustration.
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